Gillian:
Welcome to Future Works, a podcast dedicated to the conversation around innovation within the workforce space. We share research, inspiration and a glimpse into what we're building and learning here at aspects through conversations with leaders, case studies, and a whole lot of curiosity. We explore what it takes to reinvent solutions within the workforce industry, and we are so happy to be here. I'm Gillian...
Michelle:
and I'm Michelle, and we are your hosts, guiding you through raw and honest dialog about what's happening in the world of work and most importantly, how we can contribute to making it better. Before we get started with our season, we have to say welcome back to Gillian, who went and had the most incredible and adorable baby in the world. We missed you. We missed your presence. I missed seeing you in slack. I miss doing this with you. So I'm happy to see you happy.
Gillian:
I am so happy to be back. And I'm very happy to have our first episode of this season be with Kelly from our team, which we'll talk about in a sec. But, I'm just... Yeah, it was a great time. Sal's a treat. And this conversation we're about to have is very relevant, but it's going to be very hard for Michelle and I to be hosts of this podcast and not talk about, like, the impact having children and being mothers has on how we show up at work, like it's just part of our story. So to have done the first season pregnant, it was kind of a nice little journey. And here we are. It's just part of the hustle.
Michelle:
Yes, a podcast baby and a human baby. You did!
Gillian:
We first... Yeah. Two births last year. Well, exactly.
Michelle:
I'm excited to introduce our guest. I met Kelly in a totally different work world. We would schedule a meeting to talk about, like, our marketing work, and then we always spent a pretty significant amount of time talking about parenting and how challenging it was, how wonderful it was, and that balance between that. We both really loved our families, but we both really loved to work and it felt like this kinship because we were it was the first time ever I had met another person that kind of felt that same way. So it was so great to find that in Kelly. We're going to fast forward to today, where I get to watch Kelly excel in her leadership here at aspect, where she brings a team of 30 creative minds, which is incredible to consistently bring thoughtful excitement to all things aspect, because whenever I try to tell people what I do at aspect, I see people's like eyes glaze over.
But Kelly and her team always bring aspect to life with both heart and thoughtfulness, which I think is an incredible testament to your genius. Kelly. So welcome to future Works.
Kelly:
Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here.
Michelle:
So we'll start with just a quick icebreaker. If you were going to take us to, I'll say, three of your favorite spots in the world because you have traveled all over. Where would you take us? Money is no object.
Kelly:
Definitely Italy. I'd have to say the coast somewhere in, probably the Amalfi Coast or, Sicily, which is another great part of Italy. Hawaii is my second favorite. Loved. Hawaii. Third, I you know, I don't I don't I can't think of a third because it's like, I just have really two places that stand out. I tell everyone, like those two places.
Gillian:
Yeah. You would double down?
Kelly:
I would double down. Yeah.
Michelle:
I'm in for that. Let's go on this trip.
Gillian:
Let's just make it extra long and nicer hotel. If you're not picking three, we get to stay at a nicer hotel.
Kelly:
Yes, exactly.
Gillian:
Kelly, let's start with the big picture. What brought you into this world? Of creative work and marketing. Why are you here today?
Kelly:
Yeah. So it's a it's a funny story because I know a lot of people don't have, like, one defining moment for them, but I really do. I have this one defining moment in my life, and I can remember thinking, that's what I want to do, and that's what I did and that's what I'm doing. So I was about 15 years old in high school.
And, you know, you're getting to that age where the teachers are starting to talk to you about what you want to do and when you leave school. I had no idea. And we were in this big auditorium hall. And, they brought in this motivational speaker and he was talking for a while about, you know, what you want to do with your life and where you can go.
And and then he played this video, and I don't, like, recall exactly what the video said. I just remember, like, watching it and getting goosebumps and thinking like, wow, like this is incredible. Like just, you know, that feeling. I'm getting goosebumps now talking about it. Yeah. But it's like this. Like what they have managed to do with this video.
I'm like, that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to create videos like that that give people goosebumps. As you know, the rest is history, I guess. But yeah, very single defining moment for me in high school, and that's what I ended up doing.
Gillian:
It only happened at the way end of high school.
Kelly:
Yeah, I came to that realization.
Gillian:
That is awesome. It's so nice to be able to pinpoint it like that.
Michelle:
Fast forwarding to now that you are doing that thing you wanted to do in high school, what do you love about what you get to do now?
Kelly:
I love being able to tell stories - listening to someone and helping them craft their story, or creating a story completely on my own. I also love being creative in how we tell those stories. Really trying to evoke an emotional response or connection to the story, bringing our product to life in a way that feels human.
That's really what I love the most about what we do here at Aspect and working with Gillian, of course.
Gillian:
Yes, for the listeners, I'm on Kelly's team, and I'm very grateful for that. I'm curious, why is storytelling hard? It's a buzzword in marketing. And there's people that use it that should use it. And there's people that use it that shouldn't. I'm curious what warrants good storytelling in marketing.
Kelly:
I think it's something that can cut through the noise. Like I'm online a lot - I think we're on our laptops or phones all day. We're constantly and utterly overwhelmed with information. It's like apps and algorithms and ads. I think storytelling and good storytelling can really cut through that noise.
It's also really what makes us human. At the end of the day, people gravitate towards stories, it's almost like built into us. It makes us feel something. And then feeling is really what drives us to do something. So you know, it's something that I tell myself every day - whether we're in the business of selling directly to consumers or directly to businesses, we're all just people, you know, and it's just a matter of how many people you need to convince.
And I think that people really respond to stories.
Michelle:
As the non-creative on this call...
Kelly:
I think you're very creative.
Gillian:
You're also a great writer.
Kelly:
Yeah. Amazing.
Gillian:
Amazing, right? You can read a room.
Michelle:
Okay, well. I'll just keep going with this. I like the direction this has gone.
Kelly:Yeah. What else? You tell really great stories. Like the best.
Gillian:Okay, wait. Quick note on this before you ask a question. This is women in the workplace lifting each other up.
Kelly:Yeah.
Gillian:Yes, I love it. This is what we need to be doing more of.
Michelle:I'm into it, I'm into it.
Kelly:I agree.
Michelle:My question is actually though around storytelling. So if you could break down like okay I know that was a great story, what would you say are like the fundamental elements? And you're like, yeah, that one was great.
Kelly:Something really simple. I like have this goosebump test. You know, I said before, it was like I watched that video and it gave me goosebumps. It's like something that makes you feel something or something that makes you act, you know, change something. Do something, tell someone they're the best stories because that's that's that's the goal, right?
Gillian:I agree, I was telling someone, as interviewing a potential web partner earlier today, and I was telling him what it is we do, and it's so fun to tell people what we do in such a different way than how we describe it on the website or in other sales documents. That does make what we do more fun, to humanize things a bit and like dig deep enough to identify that, that storyline that isn't AI generated can't be written by just anybody can be owned by just anybody.
I think that's kind of the sweet spot of like, where the value of marketing and marketers come in handy, especially in this space, because there's a lot of people saying a lot of the same things as each other.
Kelly:Yeah, a lot of passwords. Yes, a lot of passwords.
Gillian:Not a lot of thought going into the messaging really. No offense to the competitor. It's just a slight day. I like that you added that in there.
Michelle:So we follow this thread from the video that you watched. But that was, you know, a handful of years ago. So how do you keep that like creative spark that like drive to keep being creative, to keep giving other people those goosebump moments?
Kelly:I make the time to do it. And so, like something that I've realized is that, like if creativity and storytelling is like a muscle, like I think that if you don't use it, you lose it and so Jillian knows, it's like sometimes I can do well, I can get into a project. I don't really need to be there, but I can dwell on the details like, I, oh, I don't like that word.
Or what if we said it like this and, you know, probably drives the team insane? I don't do it because I want control. I do it because I genuinely love the process, like I want to be involved. And if you don't stay like involved, then I think, I genuinely think that you lose it, right? You lose that ability.
Some of my best thinking happens when I'm away from my computer or away from my phone. So I'm like, in the shower or I'm cooking dinner or I'm going for a walk. I try and like, make space to do those things. That's when my best ideas and and best talking points come to me and I grab my phone out and make a little note of it.
Kelly:But yeah, just make the time. Make the time to do it.
Michelle:I always say to people like that, you have to count that time. You know, that, like going for a walk in the middle of the day. It feels like, you know, I'm not being productive or whatever. But at the end of the day, especially when you're thinking about creative work, like you can't sit at a computer and make creativity happen, that's the surest way to make it not happen.
Kelly:Right? Like creativity doesn't follow the schedule, right? It's like it doesn't like deadlines. And yeah. So I'm totally with you on that. Like step away from your computer, go and go outside, get some fresh air like nothing breeds creativity better than getting outside.
Gillian:Yeah. Touch some grass.
Kelly:Yes, yes. Yeah.
Gillian:So yeah I mean okay I want to call this out for the doers and the leaders. So, Kelly, we and listeners who may have forgotten, we really like to make sure that we're speaking to this range of listeners so that folks can leave the conversations with actionable ways to improve, but not just improve themselves and how they show up at the workplace.
Gillian:How can they make a difference on those that they work with? Those that look up to them? And one thing I want to emphasize that you spoke about was, to kind of use it or lose it, right? Like get involved, because something that stands out to me also as someone on your team, it makes me feel like you understand better how my time is used.
And, there is that just inherently builds this mutual trust that is really beneficial. And so when you're either a doer and you're lacking this feeling of trust, it's probably because your manager doesn't really realize what you're working on all day. And then vice versa as a leader, when you're feeling tension, you might just need to dig in a bit deeper and understand what your team's up against and like, make some suggestions about copy.
And yeah, so it's just a valuable tidbit, in terms of just working better together. Kelly, how do you especially given time zones, majority of your team being in the US, you being in Sydney time zone? How do you feel like you can best support and build up your team in such an async fashion to keep the creativity moving, make sure that they continue to work like a well-oiled machine.
On these different time zones, I am speaking from experience. I feel like we've gotten into a really good rhythm. And so what would you say as a marketing leader has helped that.
Kelly:You have to just trust your team and that you have the right people in the right roles. And just when we do connect, you know, which is most days in my morning, your late afternoon, just making sure that we. Yeah. Okay. Talk about the top priorities. Talk about, like, any blockers that you have. You know, anything that I can help you with and then just continue that communication in that trust.
Like I trust that you know what you're doing. You know the right thing to do. And I hope that the rest of the team feels that way, too.
Michelle:There's there is a balance that you're striking in, Kelly. Like, you want to get involved and you, you know, you get your hands dirty and you're in like, creating and, like, contributing and like, physically, like making some of the content. And you're also saying like, oh, but Jillian, you're, you're good with like the strategy and you're managing all of these pieces
How do you manage both? And of those pieces?
Kelly:I try to not get involved unless it's like something that's like really big, right? Like we're doing a big campaign or we're doing some, you know, some advertising, right? Some out of home advertising or something like that. That's like kind of high stakes or high investment. You know, I'll, I'll, I'll always get involved. Not to the point where I'm like, changing everything, but just speaking in saying, you know, how how are we feeling about this?
What what direction are we going? And then business as usual. The team is just set in such a great rhythm. Now that just it's just seems to be like go. Everything seems to be going smoothly. We're in such like a good rhythm. I just trust the team 100% and I actually like it. Sounds strange, but in the short amount of time that we do have, like in my mornings, I prioritize connecting personally overworked stuff.
Michelle:But I think, you know, through this conversation, it seems so clear to me that the actual things are the space and the trust and the time, like without those pieces, like kind of all of the rest of that stuff doesn't work as well.
Gillian:And imagine if you were in a scenario where you were giving up something that was insanely challenging and quick turnaround and just hard and hell, and imagine if you couldn't tell the person that you work for or with how hard it is and how like taxing it is on you, that would be awful. And I really believe that the only way to build that, like road, for someone to just have somewhere to go and just admit like, this is really hard.
I know it's going to be over. I just need, you know, this is really hard is by building that core relationship, I'd love to kind of let this transition more about, motherhood and, and how that's kind of shaped the work that you do and being a leader. Curious what being a parent has taught you about being a leader in your work or vice versa?
Kelly:It's tough. It's like parenting is the hardest job I've ever done easily. Nothing is more difficult to me than than parenting. You know, I, I say this a lot and maybe I shouldn't, but for me, right now, my the phase of life that I mean, with having two, two small children, right. Like work almost feels like a break because, yeah, I get to, you know, talk to grownups and, and I get to have great conversations and, and, you know, tell stories.
And so, although we do that a lot in parenting as well, it's not quite the same. But I think that, you know, just what it's what it's taught me about work is that, you know, being a mom, life, life can be overwhelming. The days are really chaotic. And I remember reading something that really stuck with me, and it was pay attention to the glimmers.
And I was like, gleam is that's a funny word. But it was like glimmers, the opposite of triggers. So as a parent, like, there's like little things that, you know, your kid may do that, like triggers you. Right? And you can be on edge a lot of the day. And it's really easy to get your like, overwhelmed and into like a, you know, a bad headspace.
But then we all know as parents that there's like also these like really tiny moments of like little things that can just spark joy or give you like this overwhelming, like feeling of love out of nowhere. And it's just like, let your like, pay attention to those. Let yourself sit in that moment for a little longer. Like, don't move on to the next thing.
I'm sure there's something else you need to do, but just let yourself sit in that moment like, don't brush past it. Enjoy that moment of like joy and of love. And I think it's like the same. I think the same thing can apply to work, right? It's like big things don't happen overnight and it can feel frustrating when things aren't moving as quickly as you want them to move, right?
Like, why isn't this happening? Like, why is it taking so long? And I think like just pay attention to like the small things, the small wins the small, like shifts in thinking, you know, a conversation that really sparks something. You know, I think those little moments matter. So I've really learned to just pay attention to those moments at home and at work and just celebrate them and really just enjoy the process.
Gillian:I'd say enjoy the process. I love that, and I feel like it's like if you're enjoying the process, let everyone know that you're enjoying the process in the in the meantime, because that just, again, kind of enhances that relationship.
Kelly:Yeah, totally.
Michelle:Yeah, I think I mean, prior to this job, I worked at another place when I became a parent for the first time and felt like the moment I found out I was pregnant, my superiors at that job felt like, well, you're just not going to be as good of a worker anymore. Like, because you're a parent like it.
Just so that was kind of a given. And I think, I hope we've made a shift from there. But like, given what you have just said, you know, I think there is so much to be gained. I learned a lot as a parent. I feel like I'm a better parent and a better like employee, because I'm a parent, not worse.
Gillian:When I knew I was having a second, I was like, like, how is this actually humanly possible? And people are just like you expand and you actually literally physically expand. But but your your capabilities expand, your ability to do it both all of it and the jobs we become really efficient.
Were to like, we know we got to make a decision. Let's make a decision. There's not a lot of dilly dallying and no, I think there's so much power to being a mother who is also in business. I want to be careful because I don't want to. I don't want to put down people without children either, because they're amazing.
Gillian:So to the person that thought that you weren't going to be as good at your job, that's why I'm talking to you right?
Michelle:I always say that parents rise, you know, like you always rise to the occasion. I feel like, you know, you get sharper because you have, you know, you've you're like, well, I've got like, these deadlines at work and I have this other, like, little being who is like a walking deadline.
Kelly:You need to get them a lot, right.
Gillian:Like and I also really need them to go to bed on time. Yeah. So that I can take one hour of time for myself.
Kelly:Yes. That one hour. Isn't that like the best? The best hour of the day?
Gillian:Yes. How do you spend your one hour, Kelly?
Kelly:Oh, I almost feel guilty admitting it, but…
Gillian:You know who you’re talking to.
Kelly:So I am not relaxed unless I'm horizontal. Like I have to be lying down. I can't be sitting out with my feet up. I have to be lying down. My couch is like my favorite place in the world when, like, this hour comes and I'm like, thinking about the couch, like, I need to be horizontal. And honestly, I just.
Kelly:I just lie there and I just rest. It's just the best thing.
Gillian:Are you scrolling?
Kelly:Usually I'm watching the news, like the. Yeah. So what? What's happening in the world? I am a bit of a news buff. I yeah, I like to know what's happening around the world. And so, yeah, I, I watch the news, I sometimes I do doom scroll. Yeah, I'll admit it I can, I can go down a rabbit hole.
Gillian:Yeah. Yes. Okay. So you're getting all the TikTok recipes and like protein and cottage cheese recipes.
Kelly:Yeah.
Gillian:I'd love to just kind of bring us back for the tail end of our conversation. Back to creativity. I'd love to talk more about what our listeners can do this week to reframe how they lead or show up at work creatively. And remember, we're we're trying to leave takeaways for the doers and the leaders. So what's something our listeners can do this week, right now to reframe how they lead or show up at work?
Kelly:You know, I had an old boss say something years ago stuck, really stuck with me. He said, be uncomfortable. So he said it quite aggressively to. At the time, I had a negative reaction to it. And I think, you know, a lot of people did, and I can see why people might have a negative reaction to it.
Kelly:And I get it. But real growth doesn't happen when we're comfortable. So if you're chasing something big, whether it's like trying to think of a creative idea or you want a promotion or you want to, you know, make some kind of impact at work, it's going to feel uncomfortable sometimes. And I would say, don't stop, don't stop there.
Kelly:That's a sign that you're growing. So do something this week that makes you feel a little uncomfortable.
Gillian:Kelly, I love that advice. I say it to my son all the time. I'm always say, if you're not uncomfortable, you're not trying. I say it on the ski hill with him when he's, like, angry about stuff. But then it also relates so much to work. If everyone feels comfortable with the work that they're seeing, then we're not coming up with something that they haven't seen before.
Gillian:We're not breaking through. We're not being as creative as we should. If they are iffy about it and uncomfortable, then we are doing the right thing. It relates, like you said, to personal growth 100%. It's so literal too. I mean, if you're lifting weights, the only way to get stronger is discomfort. But it also I think speaks to the output.
Gillian:And if what you're doing makes people, feel uncomfortable, then I truly think that's the right way to go.
Kelly:And you know what? I've never used it with my five year old. And I'm going to start using it with my five year old because she's always uncomfortable. I'm like, this is good. Yes, you should be uncomfortable. You're learning, you're growing. You're getting better.
Gillian:No. If you're not uncomfortable, you're not trying. Yeah. That's my version at least.
Kelly:Yeah, I love it.
Michelle:I'll ask one last question. Let's say someone like yourself is, you know, you're up against deadline. You've got to meet you. You know, you've got to make this thing. What would you say they should do in the next five minutes to, like, get their creative juices going?
Kelly:Step away from the laptop.
Gillian:Yeah, I knew you're going to say that. Touch grass.
Kelly:Yeah. Touch grass. Step away from the laptop. Go outside. Hopefully the sun is shining. I'm going to take it a step further. Take off your shoes. Be barefoot in the grass, in the sun. And just to sit there. We'll stand there for five minutes. Ten minutes. Whatever it takes. Try not to think about work. Think about the environment around you.
Kelly:Pay attention to the small things. Pay attention to the way that the sun is shining through the trees or something like that. Like something just so basic that you see every day, but you don't really notice, like notice those things just. And then come back to it right when you feel like you're ready. But I think that, you know, creativity doesn't.
Kelly:And we said this before, but it doesn't happen on a deadline. You can't force it. So break, break the pattern, step outside and just give yourself some time to think about all of the things and then come back to it.
Gillian:That's awesome. This was such a pleasure. Thank you so much, Kelly, for being here. And thank you, everyone for tuning in to future X. If today's conversation sparks something in you, please hit subscribe and follow along. As we continue to explore innovation and imagination in the workplace. We will see you next time.
Kelly:Thank you.
